Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

[UesugiKenshin]

If one learned all 14 levels of tech and then bested one of each of the other five empires, and if it is possible to then make their starships, and custom design them, then you might make the determination that their starships are not significantly stronger, so...and this is grotesque, just wholesale unleash total carnage and genocide, and use lesser troops to invade what few survivors are left. That is essentially what Curtis Lemay was trying to do in the Pacific Theatre in WW2 and then especially so in the Korean War. Hundreds of trillions would die and more, possibly a quadrillion in a large galaxy.

That is the historic issue with wargames and the AI as if the AI has powerful weapons like nuclear weapons, they have no qualms about endlessly using them.

Like this.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ITGIvSIHkXU
Endless nuclear war in Civ2 that has run at least a decade.

I can't find the original video, but it's a three way nuclear stalemate where there is literally no way to win and each turn more and more nuclear weapons devastate the entire Earth...for a decade of playing time, but in game time was 1200 years into the future.

[UesugiKenshin]

I ran the test with no fleet space support, but with a Vi dreadnaught escorting 7 transports full of level 6 troops. Result 26.7 billion casualties.

I ran the test with no fleet space support, and with no Vi dreadnaught escort with seven transports of level 6 troops, and strangely enough, the devastation was worse at 44 billion.

Obviously there is a range of variances based on the population. Going to test it to see what the minimum is to conquer 62 billion citizens.

Okay, I tried many combinations, and kept getting infrastructure damage and dead citizens, so even with a single transport of 5 level 6 troops (where before it was 7 transports holding a total mixed complement of some level 5 but mostly level 6 troops and 38 in number) it still killed up to 30 billion! Weird, right?

I think the combat calculations for ground invasion need to be looked at so there should be some variance based on the total strength of the attackers versus the defenders.

The Cartare and Khaoran and then Rotharians and finally the Terrans have (in that order had military sabotage) so the Cartare are the weakest. This is the most I have tested it in one sitting and now I am really curious what the minimal and maximum damage and casualties are. You don't really want total devastation, right as that is counter-productive.

Say in US history, the average for all wars is the total professional soldiers plus conscripts(which in the old vernacular were called militia) was about 13% of the total populace who would elect to fight in an orchestrated fashion. Then you have partisans who elect to fight rather than die as they are occupied, and a subset of them are a bit more trained and do guerilla actions. Then you have irregulars who leave before the threat of occupation and act in some loose capacity and apply military logistics, but primarily regionally. Altogether that can be up to about 20% in a world war or even in a major civil war.

Then you can extrapolate based on the largely male adult population subset and arrive at a figure in millions.

So likely you would do something similar for BotE to estimate based on trained professional military at all levels, then a subset of the billions in an inhabited sector. Then compare the professional military attributes plus experience of the attackers vs the same among the defenders plus home court advantage plus the subset of the billions who would resist occupation.

There would be something like plus the effects of bombardment from space.

I'm seeing wild results this turn.

[UesugiKenshin]

I don't understand why a Vi dreadnaught bombarding from space plus 38 troops who are mostly level 6 do less damage than 15 troops. Weird. Stuff like that bugs me. I might try running it 20 times and recording the result and trying to do some kind of analysis.

If it is consistent, then bombardment "breaks the will" ie morale of the defenders and I guess there is a logic to that, so the defenders give up faster???

It generally is against all the rules to send your boots on the ground infantry in without a bombardment as you would expect heavy casualties on the attacker's side, right? The bombardment allows them to then drop like paratroopers in, and be able to orchestrate the attack in waves. Not to mention armored units.

[UesugiKenshin]

A military tactician tries to employ various tactics to win the objective with the least casualties and wounded and then minimize the enemy losses and civilian casualties plus minimize the damage to infrastructure.

If there is some formula, and a way to do this, that would then be scaled based on planet types and total population. There would be a method to the madness. Killing billions uselessly would result in serious issues with the morale of soldiers and civilian survivors and affect morale empire wide too.

[UesugiKenshin]

I'm thinking the Khaoran get two better level troops, as their units are strangely weak compared to the Terrans, Cartare, Rotharians, and Omega. Then their troops and starships gain faster experience as they are entirely a military race.

If like the Klingons in any way, they are not weak in science either, but focused like a laser beam on military applications. It makes sense they would suffer higher attrition as they hate surviving and being crippled and waiting to die in old age. Triage among Khaoran field medics is likely brutal.

[UesugiKenshin]

http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... er_Systeme
Here is an explanation of how a system assault takes place and how the number of defending citizens is calculated to determine how many fight the invading attackers. Then it's weighted by what kind of people they are regarding attributes.

Then for bombardment, you want a type that use torpedos, as beam weaponry is not calculated, and this gives a 20% bonus, then the general rule is one unit of troops per 10 billion population.

As always, either Opera or Chrome will translate German.

I plan on testing this several times tomorrow to see if I can find a minimal loss of casualties in every way for a successful invasion. It's a lot of guess work based on knowing what defenses if any exist in the inhabited system, and whether all of the actual defending soldiers have been eliminated, and if outposts or starbases are present and if their special buildings like defensive ones plus bunkers.

I have a hunch to try an assault ship to attack using torpedoes and a minimal number of troops given the current situation on Voltaire. This is the first time in all the thousands of hours playing where I'm trying to develop some logical system to do a ground invasion that is most advantageous for the attacked. Usually I'm just conquering the map.

Carefully read about failed invasions.

[UesugiKenshin]

The smart thing to do is develop special assault ships that attack by torpedoes, but limiting by how much to get an optimal result regarding minimizing infrastructure and civilian casualties. Then have those in reserve as escorts for the transports as that specialized ship is the flagship. You probably don't want to use them for anything else.

I armored the transports with iridium long ago out of an abundance of caution. Ideally you would have an armored transport with the assault ship attribute and torpedoes so you don't need an escort and made to assault inhabited sectors. Then have cheap transports for standard tasks like building outposts and starbases.

[UesugiKenshin]

The issue is BotE lacks generations of classes, which is why I want to mod it so they exist. Otherwise you would make a large batch of cheap transports, then later edit them in the ship design screen to make the better ones. But who knows how many cheap transports to make? And the name would be the same so it would get very very confusing. And the AI won't know which to use either. It is almost like they are two separate classes.

Much of how I play is needlessly expensive as I end up with 30 to 100 million in the treasury, so who cares? But that won't work for everyone. I need a system and to prebuild what would be most helpful so six people could play the scenario in multiplayer, or so the AI has a fighting chance versus humans.

It's a shame that more people don't understand how complex BotE is yet has extremely low requirements. If I can mod just ten elements, it will be five times better, with sabotage being the worst offender.

[UesugiKenshin]

The way this worked in GalCiv2 was the player could easily configure and name those special configurations, and so you had niche starship classes to fulfill roles. And it makes sense that for space combat to have successive generations based on new technology.

Ground invasions now make more sense, it's knowing where to look, and it might make sense to slightly change the attributes of minor and maybe major aliens slightly, right? As this is vital for the citizens acting as a percentage as conscripts/militia/partisans during invasions in a defense capacity.

Ideally you could set the planets of minor aliens and so set their total population as that maximum is part of the ground defense calculation.

Mapping is actually the very first step in developing a balanced scenario.

Regardless, it makes more sense to have tough preset infrastructure for minor races so they are not pushovers, but requires a lot of work to successfully assault a minor race's inhabited sector.

[UesugiKenshin]

No scenario will work without an adequate treasury, which is what I have been obsessed with as I figured that out successfully. Now if I can empower all the major and minor races economically, and with infrastructure, and populate the military troops and starships, then an established advanced game will exist so it's less of an economic builder and more of a wargame. Then with a fully fledged story and missions, through buildings and diplomacy and events, it is far more appealing as conquering space is the antithesis of what the average sci-fi fan desires.

Consider this: how many people cheer the evil galactic emperor in Star Wars? Nobody. But that is what the goal of BotE really is.

[UesugiKenshin]

Example
I've been using a Vi dreadnought as an escort, when what I probably need is a Samech I or a Samech II or plausibly a Tzade as all three have the assault class category.

An Aleph frigate, a Daleth cruiser, or a Da'unor heavy cruiser are all the incorrect escort for bombardment.

A Sajin has the assault ship attribute, but has very low torpedoes yield on the base model. An Omega is a battleship though has the assault ship attribute, so does nothing to help as it has too many torpedoes. The Vi dreadnaught is an assault ship, but has almost as many torpedoes as the Omega, thus likely is too strong.

I was trying to use the fleet formula for ground invasions, and that is all wrong.
http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... ga_Allianz
Omega ships as a reference.

[UesugiKenshin]

Say you wanted to blockade the enemy as they lack some critical resource in that inhabited sector, or they are sending it out from a hub. To blockade as the Omega, you can only use two ships: the Omega battkeahip or the Da'unor heavy cruiser. This forces combat so is a risky ploy, but maybe the enemy just sent out waves to attack a distant enemy, and so you can wage economic war and probably get away with it.

[UesugiKenshin]

These tactics are the rock paper scissors aspects of BotE that you have to understand to send the right ship out to do the job, and plausibly going to an outpost or starbase as a waystation in between assignments. That way you can be very disruptive and move around so the enemy has to then anticipate where you are going.

Don't worry about the expense of starbases if you use my economic commodity manipulation system. You won't run out of money, and coupled with the interstellar storage as a buffer, you won't run out of ore and crystals.

[UesugiKenshin]

http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... fsaufgaben
This lists all the specialized tasks that ships have and so you need to understand what those are so you can anticipate where the enemy will send kinds of attacks and if you use the correct ship for that role, then a combat benefit is added in to determine outcomes.

For example, there is only one Omega dogkiller ship: the Resch.
"Melee ships are small, fast ships that are designed to hunt down small enemy spaceships .

30% bonus on hits and damage with small enemies"
http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... ga_Allianz

[UesugiKenshin]

If you needed a raider, the Omega have one and only one corsair ie a raider: the Daleth.
"Ships known as corsairs are designed to attack enemy convoys and systems in enemy territory.

20% raid efficiency bonus
cannot be larger than ship type 6 = destroyer (exceptions to this: 8 = heavy destroyer and 14 = alien ship)."
http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... ga_Allianz