Optimizing Infrastructure aka How to Make Millions

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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure

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Then having learned how to properly manage the economy, you might finish the game, and start a higher difficulty because you will be READY. Your eyes are opened and no longer a beginner.
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure

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To supercharge your treasury, when you have 10 high deritium colonies that have mostly built infrastructure, build transports. Now send them to places on the periphery and make outposts. Then do it again, and upgrade the outpost into a starbase. Then scrap it.

If you time it right, you can no sooner scrap the starbase as then immediately start a new outpost.

You want to do that on a colony site as then you get cash and recycled iridium.

Very excellent profits then are routinely being injected and iridium prices get ridiculously high.

The other ideas require careful management; this does not.
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure

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If you go to the developer's private google drive and download the beta with mutiplayer activated, you could play as every empire or have 5 friends doing so, and don't attack each other.
viewtopic.php?f=103&t=2592&start=180

Then save the game and upload that as an advanced save game from turn#600. Now that would be great game and most would enjoy it. It would take a month if six buddies configured it. Far longer playing all six empires!

Some tablets can load Android apps to a pc and then load through the port and then you load "from known sources" and so load an app outside of the GooglePlaystore. Or you can even download directly to your Android tablet and launch it.

My older tablet won't do that. It only loads from GooglePlay app and I don't have a pc. If I had a pc, I probably would load the latest pc version and mod it. It's difficut to mod the Android version from a tablet.
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure

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Things that drive you crazy.
When the manager is active, which for me is the vast majority of the time as I'm rushing to get out advanced saved games and don't have time to micromanage, the management AI will try to allocate points to building food even when it's maxed out on storage (25000).

What you have to do is micromanage and reduce the percentage of focus in other areas, but there isn't one for agriculture. So that means you turn the manager off that turn and enter the production screen and allocate workers somewhere else like mining resources or research or intel.

With many mines, you have to watch that workers are not mining away when the maximum storage is acheved as it isn't accumulating.

If I micromanage everything, the length of the turn gets longer and longer as the colony mananagement gets complex and I know I can oversee it better, but at maybe twice as much turn time, so instead of loading turn #500 in a week, it will end up 2 weeks from now.

Ordinarily when creating scenarios, you don't play the wargame, just configure it and save it.
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure

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Redundancy
You have redundant equipment for two reasons.
1. Bombardment might destroy infrastructure, and so you still can get out production goals.
2. There may be times in the first 550 turns where you need lots of spare capacity when you don't need to fill up storage in one resource mine as it's full, but can redeploy workers to research or agriculture instead. But if you only have the highest efficiency and minimal mines, there is nothing else for them to do. You never want people not working.
"Hey everyone. Take a free vacation for a turn (2 weeks) as we have no redundant equipment so there is nothing to do."

The price may be low and so you don't want to give away resources. You can intentionally get the price low, and then buy it back at a different colony. Or create a resource route to that colony. See that is no problem when you have 50-100 colonies, but what if you have 200+? Well that means combing through and finding who has spare resource routes. They may have tons of ore, but have used up 6 resource slots.

There were times I sold iridium down from 1000+ to 50 as I had a glut of it and maybe everything is full and there was nothing anyone could work on like research. The food storage was full to the brim.

If playing sandbox with maximal minor alien races and so no major aliens, on a giant galaxy map, there are 1600 sectors and maybe 1400 systems so that is a LOT of micromanaging.
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure

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Someone remarked the windows version has a galactic maximim of 80x80 so 6400 sectors versus 40x40 so 1600 for the Android tablet. On such huge galaxies with the maximum minor aliens, you wonder how large empires can get and would there be any conflict as you may be so far away that instead of running into each other by turn#300, it might be turn #500.

Probably what you would do is set the galaxy for a spiral pattern and instead of full stars, set it to a percentage much lower like 50-75%. You could have many more anomalies too. Then you would actually have empty space-time.

In a 40x40 galaxy, instead of 9 in a sector, realistically there might by hundreds of planets across the x,y,z axes...but maybe only nine significant ones. That is why I think either gas giants should ultimately be colonizable at advanced levels, or don't show gas giants as they have no purpose.

Just so you understand: there are 10 billion Minshara class (like the Earth) in the Milky Way.

So accounting for some empty space and anomalies in a 1600 sector galaxy (say 1400 sectors populated), at 9 per sector, that is 12,600 planets. Who wouldn't play such a grand sandbox or six empire galaxy with maximal minor alien races? Every scifi fan boy would be begging to own BotE.

With text descriptors and advanced up to level 20 tech and ships and troops, it would be fabulous and you could play for years.
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure

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It's vital you understand two aspects of BotE that seem like exploits, but I don't think they are. An exploit is an unintentional tactic that one can take advantage of through some accident of the programming. I don't think these are exploits. I think you have to take advantage of these as it's part of the design. They aren't the standard way one would do them.

Transports
1. Their secondary role is hauling troops to battlefields. Invasions are expensive and should happen after turn #400+.
2. Their primary function is to haul resources as there are insufficient resource routes per system. Imagine them as helpless freighters (at least initially). And thought you can redesign them, this would make them expensive.
3. They can deposit resources at a system, they can also dump a cache of resources in an empty sector like pirates did on deserted islands. Think of it like a bank and a resource hub meaning it could later be retrieved especially if you are about to lose that "freighter" to a raider.
4. They can upgrade to an outpost ie like the constructor unit in GalCiv2.
5. Another transport sent to that location can upgrade the outpost to a starbase.
6. They have high upkeep, but you can use this to extend your range and thus those systems claimed by you as your sphere of influence.
7. Thus you can colonize further.
8. And these starbases can be hard to eliminate with low level unit. Later you would use them as staging areas and provide escorts for that starbase.
9. But you can scrap the outpost or starbase with the former providing you with a smaller amount than the later. So it can be a money making opportunity.
10. These outposts and starbases have levels and so your research is progressing and they are stronger and so scrapping gets increasingly higher.
11. But if you scrap them in a sector you control, iridium is recycled and deposited in that sector.
12. So you could intentionally scrap them to gain iridium in a colony far before actually having iridum mines there.

Colony ships
1. Colony ships start new colonies.
2. They also terraform any non blue planets (gas giants).
3. But as colony ships are defenseless, you can send them to a inhabited system as harmless explorers. Save your game first and essentially they may not attack you but open a hailing frequency and communicate. So treaties can be struck and based on the ethos your alien race has versus their own. Some naturally like, hate, or are indifferent to your species.
4. Since a colony ship is defenseless, you can use it as "bait" to get a raider to attack. When they are in range, you retreat out of their range, and advance a strong ship or fleet to that sector. You probably defeat them as they were expecting to annihilate a colony ship and had to fight a real battle.
5. When you first start playing, you think you will have to build all the infrastructure, but that isn't true. What happens is the following.
A. Most colonize based on M class systems.
B. But if you terraform as much as possible, then when colonization takes place, the maximal infrastructure is built most of the time. This saves LOTS of money as suddenly up to 4 of everything is in place on a new sector and to build all that would be expensive.
C. So what you want to do is have groups of colony ships that are on upgrading missions where they are doing extensive terraforming to maximize infrastructure so you don't have to build it.
D. You want to terraform all the planets at once, which is a little risky if there are several M class as it can induce a famine. Why? Because growth will be intense.
E. So you want to rush the food distribution infrastructure so storage is not an issue, power them up, and grow farms too.
F. The savings is considerable, then allows premature mining of resources, but also can mean 4 intel agencies so a large jump in internal security points.
G. That last bit is extremely important based on who can sabotage you as the Cartare and Rotharians can do much more extensive sabotage.
H. So you can make more than 4 and 10 seems to cause a huge number of internal security points to shield your empire.
I. You want to as quickly as possible gain research and colonize with all the terraformed planets at once to suddenly have an immense amount of infrastructure that you could never afford buying piecemeal.
J. You didn't have to pay not only the cash, but skipped the raw materials needed to build that infrastructure.
K. So you exploit the mines as previously discusses by selling the inflated resource costs but cognizant that you need some resources to create new infrastructure.
L. But you can of course create resource routes to supply these raw materials.
M. And do what I do: buy deflated resources when they are cheap at systems lacking adequate resources so you can keep constantly building infrastructure. Just buying deflated resources...inflates the price...you are creating your own artificial demand. It's 100% self-serving!
N. You are building profitable investments that can be sold ie mines.
O. At first you are rushing so much that the factories are not essential but will be, so you want 10 of them.
P. You scrapping the starbases and alternating with profit from selling inflated resources is helping you rush production that would take too long to construct.
Q. Eventually many systems can make infrastructure in a single turn, so rushing is not needed.
R. Rushing many mines means better more efficient mine levels are available. And these produce intense amounts so profits rise dramatically. This perpetuates this rushing of infrastructure.
S. But it also allows expensive ship constructure and troops. In late turns, you can even rush them.
T. You can end up in late turns rushing everything that doesn't take a single turn. This causes massive inflation of resource prices and huge supplies which you sell each turn, generating enormous profits.
U. Based upon how crowded even a huge galaxy is, the minor aliens can't send fleets, and the major aliens have their hands full as you inflate the resource price, then sell off your gains, and deflate the resource prices in the same turn. That is economic warfare as it limits their ability to sell resources as the price is not favorable.

Now if you did this as the Cartare, you have an excellent chance of winning, but in my testing, it's the Omega who begin with a scrapable starbase that have the advantage. Why?
1. Early large cash based on scrapping which funds the above strategies.
2. Good ships and troops.
3. Can cope with the sabotage of the Cartare and Rotharians. It may get hairy as when you play with six empires, unless they hate each other due to proximity, they may all start sabotaging you.
4. You want an edge of the map. It's better to not have the edge for exploration and colonization, but with six empires, you want your back against the wall ie the enemy can't attack from that side as the map ends. So you only face a frontal attack.
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure

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There is nothing "juicy" ie eye catching about optimizing infrastructure. If I relabeled it, "How to make millions!", then it would be very popular. :D
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure aka How to Make Millions

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The natural inclination in the face of a potential hostile threat is to build defenses and troops and ships...but based on realistic risk assessment.

It's a function of the following.
1. How many other alien races are there?
2. How many ships and troops and special defenses can they build?
3. How quickly can they build them?
4. How quickly can they converge these troops to a hub to link up?
5. How quickly can they deploy them to battlefronts?
6. What are the ranges from the distance of our dynamically forming battlefront to their peripheral sphere of influence?
7. What is the strength of their current military forces versus ours?
8. Should we be the invaders or defenders?
9. What realistic attrition should we expect?
10. What are acceptable losses?
11. What will be the "diplomatic blowback from minor and other major races?
12. Which minor races like us to be peaceful versus militaristic?
12. How many minor race ships can we gain by subverting them into our empire?

See new players don't considered all these factors. They just think, "I think the time is right. Launch everything!" That is foolish and expensive and not a plan. It's a vague idea even a half baked response.

In turn#1, you set goals and measure the effectiveness of achieving goals to have some idea based on economic success how to have some troops at likely battlefront as the interlopers send probes.

You don't build mammoth military forces early as there is nothing for them to do as your range is limited. They would just vastly increase your upkeep and leave precious little money to reinvest in your empire's economy. You are being a sloppy leader.

You can be nervous from the onset, but on a giant map, you probably won't see anyone but scouts and colony ships until turn#180. You want a few little ships and one heavy cruiser for a long time, and you don't need those probably until turn #300.

You don't want to bullied either. You make judgment calls based long range scans to make informed decisions.

Build out to set a range and build from that nearby. Then colonize inward. You set the boundaries so your perimeter is robust.

The faster they know you exist, the sooner their espionage and sabotage starts and the faster they send raiders. There is no benefit to rushing out there. Unless you are an economic wizard and sending a deadly invasion wave to nip the Cartare or Rotharians in the bud, hold back and get along with minor aliens and build colonies.
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure aka How to Make Millions

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The ones comping at the bit to go out into the unknown and raid will probably be sorry and waste the lives of their brave but naive soldiers.

Honestly, do you want to crush them early when they are weak, or focus on growth and research and making money? It would be a hollow victory. You could lose and then what?

To make money and be prepared and muster strong forces is slow as molasses. Using the techniques in this topic, your empire will be enormously strong. Then go out there. If you can, send a colony ship and meet them and terraform a planet for them to set the tone and be friendly. Maybe they end up your best allies. If they are in front of you, and going to be attacked first, they will take the losses, and be essentially protecting you by default. Ally with reasonable empires and support their defense as if they falter, your empire will come under attack.

If they are bullies, appease them while heartily building forces, and if you have to, wreck them with sabotage, then invade
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure aka How to Make Millions

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viewtopic.php?f=107&t=7712
Look at what happened to the Omega. They got raided and might have counterattacked. Instead I sabotaged the Khaoran ruthlessly and waited for them to come around. They did not, so I crushed them militarily. They kept losing. Finally they were begging for friendship and co-op treaties, andI replied with a nonaggression pact. They refused and kept attacking. I kept up a withering sabotage campaign and baiting their low level ships.

It was effortless as the power the Omega have versus the Khaoran is no comparison because of hard work as a manager of the economy.

They did all the work while I quietly responded. If I got mad, I would have reacted and fought in their territory. That is useless. I don't want their far off colonies. I hate occupation and its pointless and it's too hard to defend them.

At turn #410 or so, I just got bored with them, and since I want them to get stronger to fight real battles, I pretty much ceased sabotaging and spent that money on light espionage of the Terrans and Heyoun. They are more of a threat now.

In my territory alone, there probably are 160 other sectors to colonize. If that is all available, why do I want theirs? I can defend those nearby 160 potential colonies easily.
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure aka How to Make Millions

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A commander who expends a fortune making piddly low level raiders...and loses...and doesn't know when to stop being furious...is no commander. He or she is a fool having a tantrum. They have no business waging war as they stink at it.

When you invade, your forces are strong and dependable and disciplined and follow orders and crush the enemy. You can't do that half heartedly. That takes money and planning with achievable realistic goals. And that includes supporting new nearby colonies.

That is a dangerous expensive ploy as it probably costs 5x as much as you expected. It's a logistical nightmare as you funnel money into an ill-fated endeavor. That is like when a naive couple buys a fixer-upper thinking it's a bargain, then they discover the foundation is ruined, water leaks into the basement, and the roof needs to be replaced. It's a "money pit" ie you can throw money at it and it will never be filled.
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure aka How to Make Millions

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viewtopic.php?f=107&t=7294&start=75
This is the Omega turn#700+ save game. Download it. Then open BotE and click load, then import the save game.

I think you will be shocked at the treasury size and income and how easy it is to make millions per turn.

When you make an unbelievable amount per turn, and have assumed the ships of minor races due to membership and conquering them, then look at the ship designer.

Even the smallest Omega ships are fantastically strong with lethal weaponry and the best armor money can buy. Fighters are like capital ships except they are wonderfully agile. It's like Luke Skywalker taking a fighter and taking out the Death Star.

Understand the economy,and understanding the ship designer, allows ultimate ships.

The AI doesn't stand a chance if you manipulate the economy as you can make impossibly strong ships.
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure aka How to Make Millions

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Most people don't have the time to:
1. Optimize the infrastructure.
2. Optimizing resource sales.
3. Optimize the ships.
4. Build a massive amount of troops.
5. Train them to have high experience.
6. Spending a solid month on a single computer game scenario.

BotE has a huge untapped potential. It's already the best space 4x game even though most don't know it exists, but imagine if it's modded on custom designed galaxy maps.
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Re: Optimizing Infrastructure aka How to Make Millions

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viewtopic.php?f=107&t=7065&start=75
A couple of the posts attempt to make it even more clear how to systematically seemingly impossible accomplish high treasuries.
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