Advanced save Omega vs Terrans Khaoran Heyoun

[UesugiKenshin]

I'm doing a test as the Omega on a 40x40 map fully populated with stars, minimal stellar anomalies, no minor race aliens, no anomalous entities vs the Terrans, Khaoran, and Heyoun.

The Terran's main power is diplomatic so I've turned off minor alien races and the Khaoran can often get quite a few as well. I'm testing how pugnacious the AI is with no minor aliens. The other advanced saved game maximized minor alien races so you had to do LOTS of terraforming just to establish colonies as the galactic map was maximally populated by minor alien races.

The Omega are in the Southwest quadrant. The Heyoun are in the Southeast and we're currently in a co-op treaty. I'm doing espionage only and overbuilding intelligence buildings as the Terrans will no doubt attack me using sabotage. It would have been easier as the Cartare or Rothatians, but I like the Omega ships. If there are no minor alien races, the Omega, in my opinion, are the 2nd easiest.

I'm testing how long it takes before sabotage gets annoying.

Currently I have 5-6 Saijin finished or just about finished. If there's interest, I'll upload the saved game at turn #300. I'm currently at #280.

I'm not using the beta version, but the standard version. I'm testing how well I can exploit the economy. It seems the same so far, but the farm infrastructure seems less productive that the beta version. I think the main change in the beta was types of achievements.

I play with all goals turned off as I want the game open ended.

Espionage is measuring military strength and it revealed their map, plus the Terrans to the Northwest.

[UesugiKenshin]

Turn#306 Easy 40x40 no minor aliens, minimal anomalies, no anomalous entities
Terrans NW co-op AI
Khaorin NE hostile AI
Heyoun SE allied AI
Omega SW Currently rated 1.1 and in number #1 overall #2 satisfaction/military
6 Sajin (battleships)
Tech beginning level 7 (doing special research)
Controlled sectors 173
Controlled systems 106
Inhabited systems 46

bote0007.sav

(180.46 KiB) 251-mal heruntergeladen

bote0007.png (33.43 KiB) 6107 mal betrachtet

[UesugiKenshin]

As is quite obvious, 4 players in total work for a 40x40 giants map when set to maximal star density. It would cause needless conflict to set it to include 6 (Catare and Rotharians not used this time).

Someday I hope to figure out how to do preset maps and total campaigns. Then all 6 could be on such a map plus minor alien races, plus heavy infrastructure, ships, and troops. That is the ultimate goal so realistic engagements would take place after considerable technology is learned and having stable treasuries.

I'm experimenting and trying to excessively build intelligence buildings to see how long it takes for the dreaded sabotaging to begin.

I could expand faster, but I prefer to be build robust colonies instead. This may be an error as more colonies with many intelligence buildings may be optimal.

[UesugiKenshin]

It appears the AI is programmed to stretch forward fingerlike and create space docks to entend their range. If you have ever seen how a tornado forms, it's a similar method. This allows expansion which is useful in sandbox games (where all the major aliens are turned off) in which some percentage of minor alien races are turned on.

It's not so useful for defending as the AI gets very strung out. Being able to traverse the galaxy isn't the point of the game. The point is to build strong colonies so they generate ships and troops with 90% of the effort of maximixing the economy to achieve resource surpluses and maximal research.

[UesugiKenshin]

Say you were playing as the Terrans who get the best diplomacy and so they more easily absorb minor alien races. If playing a sandbox game with them with maximal minor alien races, you might indeed do as the AI is expanding as the minor alien races are system bound and won't attack you.

[UesugiKenshin]

Far earlier, it was obvious the Heyoun did not have similar military forces. I certainly could have trounced them. "I prefer not to", said Bartleby, the Scrivener by Herman Melville.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartleby,_the_Scrivener

It's not sporting and is like using a machine gun and a high beam light against a startled deer. There are lots of players who use those kinds of hit and run games, but they are reflective of computer games, not actual war. I'm not sure what playing in that manner is all about. Crushing the computer???

[UesugiKenshin]

The ideal war game is most often a carefully modded scenario where all of the opponents have been balanced with tremendous forces and infrastructure and research and treasuries so taking even one is difficult, let alone all of them. Then playing that same set up on multiple difficulty levels and presuming the hardest will consistently beat most players.

Then I feel a sense of accomplishment as I could easily lose...just like real war.

To test the system, I do not backstab, but take note of when the AI does. This penalizes me as most of the time, I could exploit the AI when they send their forces to the battle front, and attack the flank that has no defenses to speak of. That isn't fun in my opinion, though it certainly is a legitimate ruthless tactic.

[UesugiKenshin]

Julius Caesar was a remarkable general, but he extensively used mercenaries that attacked their own people. You can bet that the Catare would do so, and likely so would the Omega. A special cheap attacker that has high attack and worthless defense would be interesting units.

A great defending unit might be employed that is worthless to attack with, but "can hold down the fort" for minimal funds.

That's the kind of extra units I want to mod in BotE.

[UesugiKenshin]

Well it's turn #344. The Omega are allied with the Heyoun and Terrans. The Khayoran stupidly attacked and lost. Don't just autoresolve, but decide whether it's better to avoid or retreat. They lost while attacking me as I was avoiding. It irritated me as I was perfectly willing to leave them alone. This was really a blunder as I brought extensive espionage against them, then sabotaged based on every report I received. Now since they won't stop invading, yet suing for peace through frienship and co-op offers (right, like I would trust them in my territory), I've formed multiple fleets and sending them out.

This is not the way to wage war as they have no capacity to attack my colonies from space, nor invade with ground forces. The AI should expand, terraform, build infrastructure, build ships, and build troops to defend. There is no reason to invade, just probe to assess the neighboring opponents. Instead they are moving past the Terrans and Heyoun to focus on me. Why?

There's a theory that players want action so the AI will do foolish moves so the human player experiences action early on. That could be a function of difficulty levels and looking forward several moves (as in chess) and calculating. GalCiv 2 had an intelligence level per opponent and so you have stupid major alien (or even minor) races...all the way to godlike intellect (but it slowed down the processing time).

Think in terms of logistics. While they are further away and sending ships (and fleets) into my territory, the Khaoran risk a pin from the Terrans and Heyoun, then they have to avoid my patrols, and go home empty handed with zero gains. It's senseless. I could see hit and run tactics against terraforming colony ships as guerilla tactics causing attrition.

It is allowing me to extensively test sabotaging. Historically then either the Terrans(!) or the Heyoun will backstab and do espionage/sabotage missions. That makes no sense for the Terrans to do. They should exploit the opportunity and do ground invasions on defenseless Khaoran colonies while they are busy. The Khaoran can crush if they can get powerful enough.

They can't win due to how sabotage is now and that is fixable with minor modding. See the mod topic.

[UesugiKenshin]

It's the start of turn#366. Statistically when attacked by the Khaoran, my 3 Sajin battleships in a fleet have a 46% chance of success, so I then "avoid" them and have won several times (3 times, I think). I'm playing so fast for espionage/sabotage testing that I'm not fully paying attention.

The Khaoran must loathe me as I've run out of sabotage targets and twice without even trying to sabotage their ships, two colony ships were captured. I've allocated 50% of intel points in espionage and sabotage. My reserve is 113,000 points which is an absurd amount. I'm making 10 intelligence buildings per system. It requires a lot as the AI will gangup on the human player. Usually by turn#340 it happens, but as I'm destroying all targets, the Terrans and Heyoun are leaving me alone. It's weird as neither are growing colonies nor attacking the Kharon colonies as they both have alliances with the Omega and the Khaoran. Weird. Why have they not sided with the Omega???

The Omega have 52 systems. They all have 22.

[UesugiKenshin]

It's more interesting to play with the minor alien races turned on, but dramatically slows down colonization as they can end up controlling a huge amount of systems.

The main benefit is not using their ships, but using their technology in your own ships by using the ship designer. That is what I miss as when you subvert them through diplomacy or conquer them, then you can do this.

The simplistic modding method would be after finishing level 14 research, as you're so powerful, then learn all of their tech and then employ it. Perhaps that would be accomplished by level 17? Otherwise due to how the "manager" works, the wise player scraps all research infrastructure so those workers are building other needed buildings, ships, and units (mostly the latter two items).

If we understood the java code programming, then one could turn on all the gas giant planets as well (so more population per system and more work done). Then there could be not only what happens currently, but new resources, "wonder buildings", achievements, special troops, genetically altered major races, etc.

[UesugiKenshin]

Not only this, but my dream is a text field that is modable and for the human players to add descriptions for each planet and systems. Then BotE becomes an immensive galaxy. Then lengthier diplomacy. In multiplayer this would be awesome if everyone started in an advanced turn#700, then realistic intragalactic war could be waged over a weekend.

It would be a situational quasi-MMO so could run ads to benefit the programmer. Ordinary MMOs are unfair as whoever has been playing longest wins. This would be far better.

[UesugiKenshin]

I'm building extensive system bastions with all manner of defenses plus garrisons before I even think about launching invasions. There was no need for that in the "sandbox" Omega advanced save turn #700.

As there is such a vast unpopulated huge galaxy, there is no need for conflict as one can go systematically through terraforming. I'm actually restraining myself from making far more colonies as the AI is 30 colonies behind.

I'm glad to make these advanced save games, but I wish I could play as every major alien race and replicate efforts so it's balanced. Then if we had multiplayer, 4 players could have an intense weekend, or play it successively over a month. Then BotE is more than a "builder", but a fully fledged wargame with various scenarios.

[UesugiKenshin]

So the Omega systems might end up being impregnable. Some minor alien races have unique defenses so one could mod BotE so just as certain "energy buildings" like the charge collector can only be on some worlds, then you could have similar defenses based on planet type. It might be as harrowing as Omaha Beach in France in WW2 to attack them.

[UesugiKenshin]

It's a shame about the Khaoran as I really like playing them. I may stop sabotaging them to see how they cope. Once before, something similar happened, and it appeared they got major bonuses and came right back when it looked like they would have to capitulate.

This is why sabotage can be addressed in a mod. See the modding topic for my plans.

In several wargames, if one "nation" severely beats another "nation", then a bit is flagged and so while they may pretend to desire peace, but then come back with intense savage revenge ie some nations once humilated can't deal with it and have to "get their honor back".

In M2TW Kingdoms, there is a "tall poppy" bit so the AI attacks whoever is best succeeding, which may be another AI instead of the human.