Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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Edit:
The turn #700 advanced save game is on page 6.

If anyone wants, I am currently running a beta test of the most recent version of BotE that has all major aliens turned off except for the Omega Alliance. They have two significant and highly experienced fleets from Andromeda and the Zhorians. These are mixed cruisers, heavy destroyers. I was hoping after tech level 14 that there would be some mechanism for retrofitting these. Nope. I think they are only good as defenders. That's why I am building the best advanced fleet just now.

Then I have explored the majority of the map, and have diplomatic relations with most, but saving the large fleets for last. They show up as question marks.

To do so, I have recruited several fully maxed out Omega battleships with the best available weaponry. The other two organized fleets are highly experienced but antiquated with titanium hulls.

Then over 250+ sectors are heavily industrialized with the highest infrastructure while other sectors are being extensively terraformed and prepped for colonization.

I thoroughly built starbases at level 2 and 3 so I could extend my range so even midrange ships could be explorers.

Then the best sectors have large amounts of the finest mechanized infantry.

The economy is throughly sound and generating massive amounts of ore and crystals and currently has a balance of 4 million credits.

You could ensure you have the beta Android version and then have an advanced start and do your own testing.

As this was designed for beta testing, and since it's a sandbox game, then there is no major alien to attack your sectors, so the defenses are lacking as minor alien races even with strong fleets won't leave their sectors but defend them. Still you could start extensively engaging in war and try different strategies. You could try invasions of some species. You would see what defenses they have.

Even at this advanced level, some minor races have powerful fleets that won't be pushovers.

No effort has been made to build intelligence networks as that is superfluous in sandbox mode.

I'm going to keep beta testing for awhile to delve into the more arcane aspects of BotE. But you could use this advanced saved game as a way to learn and dovetail on to what I have already discovered. It would save you a month of work.

I'm going to start a new game probably as the Cartare or Terrans versus the Khaoran and try to build as extensively for a month before also releasing that as a 700+ turn advanced save game. Now that I know more about BotE, and since I have to build intellgence networks and defenses against a very pugnacious but honorable foe, the second test might take 45 days to build a turn 700+ advanced saved game.

The Catare have weaker individual ship to ship combat,but are designed for fleet manuevers, so they have achance of defeating the Khaoran. They also have the best ground invaders.

The Terrans as superdiplomats should technically pick up lots of membership and 3+ minor race fleets, thus be able to repel the Khaorans.

In both cases, I want to witness what the AI Khaorans will build and not use pop rush tactics but have them thrive in their part of the galaxy. And only then choose to counterattack and not do a first strike. I suspect the AI will use silly pop rush tactics as that happened regardless of who I fought against by turn 400-500. But now I better understand how to manipulate the economy and thus I can "turtle" better.

I'm hoping by that time to discern hex editing and try to create an advanced save game. We don't have campaign tools or a multiplayer version so I don't have a direct way to create a scenario.

Ultimately I want to create a balancing mod to address all the issues I have found. At one time, hex editing was straight forward and you could then reclassify gas giants on the map and so every sector would have totally useful planets that could be colonized.

I like to map so I would like to actually place minor races in specific spots,but barring that, then preplace starbases and turn them off until probably turn 650+ or so as they are too overpowered. Then mod sabotage and require extremely high tech levels say level 20. I also want to add many more trade routes/resource routes so the economy makes sense...as there are actually insufficient slots to do trade as to build the economy properly requres extensve resource routing.

That's the plan anyway.
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Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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If you elect to play this advanced save game file, then you will notice an excess of energy. That is somewhat deliberate as I am building every planet-wide energy project so players can experiment and see for themseves what the energy cost are for defensive buildings.

You can play around with it and so determine what your own requirements would be if you began from scratch.

The second version will not be so wasteful and will have to have defensive buildings and intelligence buildings and so these large excess amounts of energy will not exist.

If I can make a building that completes under ten turns, I don't generally "rush production", thus it costs nothing but time. Rushing productions wastes millions but the goal is to make the save game very player friendly so they can focus on military operations, not minutia.

That also means building extremely efficient buildings through every upgrade when in fact, that isn't necessary.
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Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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I have intentionally not interacted with many minor alien races with fleets so that when I load the advaced saved game, then players can elect what to do. You may continue to focus on terraforming colonization. You could send a weak colony ship to attempt a peaceful first contact and maybe even membership and so aabsorb their fleets. That sometimes works. You could send the mightiest Omega battleship like Comkodore Perry in 1853 trying to open up Japan to trade. You could just try to invade.

The whole point of the last moth was to give new people a chance to experience what BotE can do at the advanced level.

The Chewalk have a fleet as the Sevar do as well. Both are on good relations and by the time I save the game, either may end up being members and they have their own unique ship qualities. If you delay membership too long, then you get a situation like the Angolith where they have 100% acceptance, but are benefitting from peace so much, that they are attempting to maintain their own autonomy. Why would they join as they are safe and under no threat as they have extremely powerful big brther who places no demands on them?

If you want members, then don't let minor races get too comfortable or they never will become members.
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Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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I'm at turn 665. Each turn takes about an hour.

There currently is 2.28 million in credits, a massive amount of ore/crystals, by placing ore/crystals at new colony sites and rushing production of buildings and placing low levels of necessary raw materials at others ...then you can end up sell the highest value ore/crystals from the largest stored amounts at those sectors and earn about 800,000 in credits per turn. Then earn 89,000 per turn in taxes. I could spend down my reserve credits and speed along production, but I want you to have a large amount so you can try many strategies.

I suggest you try creating some trade and resource routes just to learn how to do that.

You will have four fleets. Two are older minor race with very high experience. I recommend you experiment with different kinds of flagships. Two are very powerful Omega fleets that have heavily been customized. I was hoping you could retrofit ships at some point, but that is not possible. That would be great in a future version so you would maintain your experience but make the starships faster, more manueverable, with better shields, hull integrity, and weaponry. The fleets are at the Omega Homeworld.

I may create a mix of other Omega units just so you can experiment with them, or you can just do that yourselves in the ship designer. Some sectors are so highly developed that custom Omega battleships (which have excellent adjusted attributes) can be churned out in 3 turns. That would be like a sector making a galaxy class Enterprise in six weeks! Most take 4 turns so 8 weeks. That is amazing.

I have reconfigured the most advanced ships to such a degree that even basic fighters are immensely powerful. It's kind of a perfect range of ships that would be unlikely to ever actually happen.

There are starbases throughout the empire but since the minor races can't attack you, then mostly they just accelerated the growth of your range. I recommend you try making outposts and starbases for practice.

Out of 1600 sectors, all but 156 have been directly explored. I may explore them all, but if I do then you won't get the chance at first contact. There are probably 20 unexplored other sectors as they have fleets, so together that is 176 sectors. I can build starbases to extend the range faster, but that would be a good thing to learn how to do. I think it's better for new players to practice exploring, but I'm trying to have almost a perfect sandbox save game so you can most quickly do everything in BotE that ordinarily would take hundreds of turns to do.

I have built a large amount of 98% Level 5 Omega troops,but no transports as yet. A scant amount of others are available.Your troop experience is probably from green fresh troops with no experience to some having 1500. So maybe in turn 680, I will make transports every turn, send them to Andromeda as it has a combat training facility, and so they will gain experience for 20 turns to help you even more. The troops are spread throughout the empire, so you will have to take transports and deploy them from Andromeda, and send them to collect troops indifferentbsectors, and then to carry troops to whatever sector you plan to invade.

So I have peaceful relations with all minor races thus encountered. You can choose their fate. Ony two have fleets: the Sevar and Chewak. The others you would send air support to pound them from orbit then do a ground invasion. Or you could try to manipulate them into membership, though I think that is fruitless so late in the game. It would make sense to attack the closest minor race fleets that are unknown and within your empire. You may choose to try a peaceful first contact through hailing them, but I doubt it works.

See, if you could sway some into membership, then you could reconfigure the highest class Omega ships and other minor race ship classes, and likely make even better ships. It's up to you. I hope that works out for you.

There is an extensive deritium network. You could make fighters or colony ships at some sectors as they are using detrium trading, so have very low levels (between 4-6 deritium). To me the deritium trading should be modded so it's more useful as those sectors only get a trickle. Whereever possible, I have created Level 4 deritium refining so you should have good surplus to draw from.

99% of the sectors have everything powered up with at least 300 extra energy points. A scant few are still in development. Some have enormous energy reserves. You could experiment with what is involved in making advanced defenses and then powering them up in the manager. Then you would have some idea of how many plasma reactors you would need at level 6 or level 7 for the strongerst defenses.

Save your game so you can try many things.

Soon you can play at turn 700 unless things all those goals happen faster.
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Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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My next plan is one major race empire versus the Khaoron on a similar maxed out map, but that is likely a whole month away. By that time, I hope to start a mod with everything I have learned. In my opinion, it's way more fun to have an advanced start.

The temptation is to do Terrans as they likely get many more minor race fleets and they may need them by the midgame as the Khaoran are very aggressive.

I would do more races but sabotage would then be ridiculous.

I'm experimenting with research by letting it advance to Level 15. If doing so does nothing, then it's ugly, but scraping them would free up some labor points as gaining levels does nothing as they are unconfigured. That would mean even faster mining or the generation of ships. Level 5 troops take a single turn at 95% of sites with the raw materials. It might mean far more profit and incredibly fast generation of starships.

Practice with the manager by modulating labor by focusing on certain ore/crystals or industry. The latter is what is used to make starships. I doubt any famines occur as I way overbuilt agriculture and replicators.

Morale is extremely high with many sectors at the fanatical level.
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Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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An idealized saved game with BotE modded as a beta revision, then would simplify the experience for new players. Then having facilitated being able to do the very best of every action, they then could start a fresh game having then learned how best to begin.

In a perfect situation, BotE mods would be available on the Google Playstore and so everyone could play them as right now, only a few can for security reasons of limited sideloading of aps on some tablets, mostly the older ones.
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Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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If multiplayer was available, I could create an outstanding saved game, and then six players could have fun with a turn 700+ start. War could commence in ten turns of deployment. That would be so much fun as people can't commit to very long multiplayer time.

Imagine a grand battle with the research already done and pure war taking place with the very best ships and units and some older ones with high experience. I think everyone would enjoy that.
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Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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Turn 667
I'm trying risky diplomatic strategies to nail down some last minute memberships. The risk is it takes a whole turn later for them to muse over it and then reply, and so if it goes sour, then wasting a whole hour and delaying uploading the save game. As the turns increase, the AI minor alien race knows if it isn't a member, there is a high likelihood they will be eventually invaded.

It paid off as 4 became members and six became allies...including the Sevar who have ships. I don't think I can persuade them or the Chewak to be members, but that would really help custom designing ships using their hulls.

Many refused to changed their treaty status but some switched to friendship. Sometimes such demands with no gift either lowers their acceptance rate as they are irritated to be put on the spot. Other times they end up making a counteroffer...even a better deal that jumps from trade to cooperation or alliance. Ordinarily jumping more than one treaty level is refused, but the AI will do it if it likes and trusts you. That's the reward for staying peaceful.

You can offer a gift to sweeten the deal including ore. I have been patient and extremely generous all along and now stopped being generous ie "the Omega Alliance is tired of mollycoddling your people. Make up your mind." And many did so. Now I have to hustle to get four more ready and maybe six more ready. It's going to make it difficult to maintain a large surplus.

With diplomatic status and acceptance rate, watch for "optimistic" which means they hope for a better treaty and "devoted" which often means they are ready for membership on some level. That is especially true in way earlier turn numbers.

I think I'll start doing troop transports in turn 670 because I want them experienced and ready for ground invasions.
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Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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The Yamaborte and the Loknor have at least terraformed their planets and have some infrastructure. The Corvellians and the Elee are in terrible shape lacking adequate farms and general basic infrastructure and have not terraformed at all. That is what you get into, and it really makes no sense that they would resist membership for so long. One time I got members from the Templar and they were on verge of starving.

And realize that while every membership is helpful, the advantages this late are mostly lost as all the tech has been learned. See some have bonuses on research so they effectively are offering nothing in return so them joining costs my empire.

In a best case scenario, they have some bonus that causes empire-wide bonuses. That remains to be seen by paying for special projects.

In real life, an empire like the Fedration might just refuse some of these applications for membership. But unless you study the BotE German wiki (which is far more complete), then you don't know what they offer to your empire.

So in a game other than sandbox mode, you would carefully see what minor alien races offer and based on your economy might never bother with improving diplomatic relations or sometimes even invading.
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Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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Growth rate and colonization and food storage and farms/replicators

I think I'm starting to get a handle on how BotE operates. The farms produce to a storage of 25,000 so it's confusing what the function of farms do. Essentially you only need 4 farms but doing upgrades regularly. As the storage is filled, but you keep upgrading (plus whatever the attributes of a minor alien race that may have become members,), the extra food is like a fertility pill. Fertility drugs will cause multiple eggs to drop and become more easily fertillized. That is why a woman taking them can end up having not just twins, or triplets but quintuplets or more! So as you reach that storage cap of 25,000 then look at the sector population cap. Your population will increase and at some point, the growth rate will spike by 2-20 TIMES the normal growth rate.

That is very peculiar as a high amount of upgraded food beyond the storage cap then rather than causing say squalor which is the system from excessive growth rate in Medieval 2 Total War, then instead the people are happier in morale as they are confident famine won't happen. (Then of course other infrastructure also improves morale or even lowers it say in the case of internment camps).

All my established major sectors are maxed out on population and they also have morale levels that are at the "fanatical" level. You can try bribing away minor alien races and it can be effective when the morale is low and some major alien races cannot be bribed away.

So you really don't have to maximize all the upgrades. I knew I overbuilt, but now it's hysterically funny. Aqidona has a growth rate 20 times normal! Mating is all they do! How does any work get done?

Empire Military Tab

When you are dealing with 319 ships and trying to rapidly assess where they need to go and what to do, then the fastest way seems to sort by "type" and look for the two right most columns. These are "status" and "target". The status states what the starship is doing and the target states if the ship has navigated to where you told it to go. You look down for all the ones that say "status nothing" and "target nothing". This means the starship has arrived at its target and is now stopped and not doing anything. Then you issue new orders.

If you have to think about every single one and slowly realize that you need to do something, instead of 1 hour to execute all the order changes it would 2-3 hours per turn.

So when you send multiple colony ships to ensure everything in the sector is terraformed most efficiently and then maximize resource acquisition all at once, you do so by multiple colonization.

Now if you wait and hurry agricultural buildings, the growth rate may so accelerate that BotE won't let you colonize as many planets even though there is a wide gap between the population cap and the number of planets. That's my current hypothesis. It will allow you to do mutiple colonizations in the same turn, so that is the best way to do it.

Now with a regular game, one empire is not trying to colonize the entire galaxy and it would be unsafe to have so many colony ships as your enemies would prey on them as they are largely defenseless.

The safest way to make "first contact" with a minor alien race with a fleet is with a weak colony ship as sometimes they won't attack as you are harmless.

You could design stronger colony ships but it would be a waste as they are scrapped in the process of colonization. Ideally the deritium required to make colony ships (about 4) would be conserved in the sector where you colonized. I hope to mod that.

If you configure your scouts to be faster and your colony ships are faster, than there major alienbracew, then of course you have a major advantage.

In a regular game, colonization is very limited based on having many more opponents competing. And it's dumb to colonize close to the opponent's borders as they will surely attack as your colony could be a staging area. Always build inwardly not outwardly.
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Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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Within a sector where you are terraforming and colonizing, then BotE change the icon so you know what starship is terraforming what planet class. And when you colonize with that starship, the icon change show show it. BotE depicts the experience status of starships with dots too. What BotE doesn't do at that level is show which one has movement orders. On the overview, you know that one of those ships has navigation orders and to where by triangle icons. But when several are in a sector, it is wiser to issue navigation commands from the empire military tab.

You don't want vulnerable colony ships to just sit there. That is a waste of time.

It's common to have other ships do sentry duty.
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Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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It's turn 669 and I've issued orders to create 30 transports (Patavium, Andromeda, and Hieroknosus or something like that). Then all will head to Andromeda to get combat experience. That should be plenty for ground invasions with four just in case to make outposts then starbases.
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Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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Lest you think the number of farms and upgrades consistently gives the identical growth rate, that is simply not the case. It may be a function of the original planet class, variable planet modifiers, and the race living in that sector. For example the Zhordan are a fine race that are militaristic. They have every growth and every upgrade modifier and have a normal growth rate. The player has no consistent pattern to follow as planets and sectors and races vary.

One sector gets normal and one gets 20 times normal growth! That is a wide spread along a continuum.

It would be interesting if demographics took place as they do in Civ 2. There you get an idea of what your buildings truly do to alter the people's status. It would be interesting as in some sectors, a variety of people colonize that may be of many minor alien races or the Omega major races. You could do things where that would cause conflict or have a synergistic effect. Some minor alien races have bad histories of conflict...so they would simply not get along.

BotE is a fascinating galactic simulation as well as a 4X game so since it's open ended, a java programmer could genuinely do so much more with it to add roleplaying and missions and minor alien race troops. Some of the minor alien races would make terrible soldiers, but others have unique abilities and only 10% or less soldiers are actually combat soldiers in some manner.

Some diminuative ones like Minimali might fit in tiny cockpits of extremely powerful drones. BotE is only limited by the creativity of programmers and modders. Some might be excellent at exploration/cartography or military intelligence or logistics. Some of those practicing the martial art of Nora-nora are huge. They would make fearsome shoxk troops. Some seem to be the size of brontosaurus, but that doesn't mean they are fearsome based on size alone.

I am genuinely surprised at the tremendous potential of BotE and yet, it is largely unknown in the USA.
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Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

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I'm doing a major colony ship blitz to eventually have full range of the galaxy. Next I'll do blitzes of other classes of ships especially fighters so you can try mixed tactics. BotE doesn't seem to really have carriers that would launch short range fighters and long range stealth bombers. That would be a great new feature.

You are very limited in the ship designer within the game in the research screen. That is why a beta or full version should included many more ships available at Level 13 and 14. If you have the Java based PC version, you have a ship builder and can make very tailored incredible ships. I might buy an old pc that will run BotE eventually to mod it and push it to my Android tablet. It seems extravagent to do so, but I'm intrigued by possibly learning Java programming.

Ideally the ship builder would be within the players' save game data and then you could configure ships for all the major and minor races at higher levels with names but using the same existing art. That is how GalCiv 2 did this. So BotE would use all the existing ships, but in the save game data, special new advanced ships could be fine tuned. Otherwise a modder would only use Omega technology levels and not mix and match attributres from gained minor race membership ship classes.

Parion is the sector witht double large population caps, but lacks deritium...otherwise it would be perfect.

A single Kalph class Omega scout has been around since turn #1. The scouts sadly max out in experience at 1000 which is odd, yet if they were stationed in orbit at my training facility on Omega Alpha, their experience would be about 19,000.

Colony ships gain experience, and I suspect it modifies terraforming rate, but have not tested this. You would have to send two colony ships with one at no experience to say a P class planet and another with higher experience at another P class and then time how long each takes to do the terraforming.

There is a massive amount of terraforming going on.

Sometimes the Osset sector seems to generate two colony ships in a single turn. It may be so efficient that a low level ship might be created in that fashion in very efficient sectors. In the empire military tab, you get a column that shows the turn that a ship was created. I'm watching to find verification.

The Milky Way is a large galaxy shaped by major and minor spiral arms. The Earth is not even on a minor arm, but vaguely off to the side slightly. You would imagine the center would have a lot of traffic but that kind of navigating of starships may be old-fashioned as warp technology, if it truly exists (and the Alcubiere drive seems to indicate that it is so), then may fold space rather than navigate through every starsystem to get from point A on the far edge of the galaxy to the opposite far edge of anther side of the galaxy.

I'm trying two diplomatic tactics again. Doing terraforming of minor race sectors to improve their diplomatc acceptance rate and just demanded membership with no gifts of about ten minor races. I'm hoping to get at least four.

The Hanchec are a plant species like treetrunks and are very slow to trust anyone but have a large deritium project so it's worth the time to try to gain them as members. They don't make any snap decisions. Others do in a few turns and become members with very little coaxing.
Zuletzt geändert von UesugiKenshin am Dienstag 16. Juni 2020, 18:12, insgesamt 2-mal geändert.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
Chrome and Opera autotranslates German.
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UesugiKenshin
Admiral
Admiral
Beiträge: 3561
Registriert: Dienstag 31. März 2020, 03:51

Re: Advanced saved game post turn 700 as the Omega in sandbox mode

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin »

At later turns when I know where every minor race fleet is, then I can provide a list of every diplomatically known and uncontacted species and then a German wiki link so you can see what attributes they have and what ship classes they have. That is a concise list that does not give you the whole picture. In google chrome, you can autotranslate and so understand the German documentation. It's way better than the English wiki.

What I want is a meaningful document that would fully compare ships for tactical analysis as ships have many attributes in the ship builder program that are not documented. It's hard to do military tactics and strategize without having that data.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
Chrome and Opera autotranslates German.
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