The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

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UesugiKenshin
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin »

When playing with this future intelligence change mod, then of course it would be easier to turn minor alien races to zero. The major alien races will expand easier and so not be as pugnacious so early by turn #300. In a 40x40 giant maxed out with star systems map, then the turn at which the AI stumbles upon you seems to be turn#300+.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

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Building txt file attributes that are security related.
Line 61: security production
Line 75: security bonus
Line 91: inner security intelligence boni percent
Line 92: economyspy intelligence boni percent
Line 93: economysabotage intelligence boni percent
Line 94: researchspy intelligence boni percent
Line 95: researchsabotage intelligence boni percent
Line 96: militaryspy intelligence boni percent
Line 97: militarysabotage intelligence boni percent
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

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There isn't a building editor for the Android, so it has to be done by hand.
Example Bldg 34 which is the 1st intelligence building and the first field is the Building ID #. Sadly the image graphics don't match. Then you go through line number by line number looking at these values.
Line 61: security production
Line 75: security bonus
Line 91: inner security intelligence boni percent
Line 92: economyspy intelligence boni percent
Line 93: economysabotage intelligence boni percent
Line 94: researchspy intelligence boni percent
Line 95: researchsabotage intelligence boni percent
Line 96: militaryspy intelligence boni percent
Line 97: militarysabotage intelligence boni percent

Then in a scaled fashion, add positive values in these areas.
Line 68: deritium production
Line 70: moral in system
Line 71: moral empirewide
Line 82: deritium bonus
Line 117: added traderoutes
34
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con_3543.png
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Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin »

This means then carefully changing 60 buildings. Then saving the txt file in notepad. Then submitting it to be included in a new mod apk, or replacing the existing txt in an apk. And documenting the changes.

It's very old school modding, not difficult, but meticulous work. And I can't test it until it's possibly added to the GooglePlaystore as an app.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

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So each major alien race has 5 levels of intelligence agencies thus far, so replace any sabotage values with a zero, then scale them to cumulatively help with morale, trade/resource routes, and deritium.

Then 3 major alien races have special intelligence buildings so get a little more.

Then do the same with the minor alien race buildings cognizant that these are special intelligence buildings in addition to the standard 5 levels.

Then ensure it's balanced
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

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Far later add maybe 5 more levels for completing a huge amount of research plus energy to do actual sabotage in turn #900+. So sabotage would be effectively neutered for most and only occur as end game tactics when all opponents have extraordinary empires, ships, vast research, monumental energy surpluses, when it would be plausible.

This requires 30 graphics (5 additional levels times 6 opponent major alien races) for those buildings and likely a minor editing job on the existing Level 5 graphics.

There is a data obb file that contains the music/sounds plus the graphics for everything including the buildings, so an artist would be needed to change a few pixels to represent level 6, level 7, level 8, level 9, and level 10.

Or change the requirements for these intelligence buildings to extremely high research values, and just add positive attributes to other existing buildings. Then those 30 graphics are not needed.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin »

Since I don't know how security points are accrued and how they influence espionage and sabotage specifically, I think new intelligence buildings would be better. That's java programming then.

The key is trying to figure out what precisely turns on sabotage and delaying it effectively.
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

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Because diplomatic sabotage is not a line # attribute, I suspect it's a function of security points that are accrued after say turn #300. Thus probably diplomatic sabotage still will occur as a valid tactic.

Most likely it's a function of the following.
Line 61: security production
Line 75: security bonus

It manifests in the following ways.
http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... abOff.data
3 = diplomacy 0 improving relation
3 = diplomacy 1 decreasing enemies relation
3 = diplomacy 2 improving relation to minor
3 = diplomacy 3 decreasing enemies relation to minor

Now I doubt anyone takes issue with this as that routinely happened on shows like Star Trek so it's somewhat plausible based on the turn# as it takes time to explore a massive 40x40 galaxy and it takes a massive galaxy to emulate science fiction shows on a galactic scale and have serious intragalactic war (battles within a galaxy). You can't really represent that on even a 20x20 galaxy.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

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Diplomatic sabotage makes sense.
0 = Economy 0 destroying buildings
0 = Economy 1 stealing credits
0 = Economy 2 food poisoning, pop died
1 = Science 0 destroying buildings
1 = Science 1 getting research points
1 = Science 2 enemies research points destroyed
2 = Military 0 destroying buildings
2 = Military 1 killing troops
2 = Military 2 destroying ship
2 = Military 3 stealing a ship
2 = Military 4 damaging a ship
Economic sabotage makes sense after level 15 research is complete.
Scientific sabotage doesn't make sense as advanced buildings would have high security so more strigent research would be required like after level 17 is complete.

It would take a remarkable amount to plant spies/saboteurs on capital ships and military installations to annihilate soldiers, but by that time it's about neutralizing level 5 combat units like robotic tanks. So maybe after level 19 is complete which should be about turn 900.

With few opponents (1-2), you could finish level 14 by turn #700. But with six opponents, your growth would be limited and you'd have to fight space battles and do invasions to have those research facilities.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

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One alternative is delay the 5 levels of intelligence buildings for major alien races, but allow low level espionage on minor alien race planets. This is a strategic impetus to attack or subvert them as on your own, major alien races would only get these very late in the game.

You would require controlling certain minor alien races who have the other 30 intelligence buildings just to start doing espionage. This puts a whole new spin on espionage/sabotage and some of those would be tough to take as they may have fleets and special infrastructure resisting invasions. These minor alien races might be deep in hostile territory. Certain major races might have an advantage based on where the random map puts them in proximity to these systems.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

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I'm playing an advanced save game turn#388 as the Omega and doing constant sabotage as I have an enormous amount of points I'm using against the hapless Khaoran. Don't blame me as they started this silly war.

What can sabotage do? Well at lower points, you can initiate based on discovering vulnerabilities wth espionage points, then commit to sabotage. However at 200% in an area, your operatives automatically run missions. At 240%, it started doing automatic double sabotage missions per turn.
.0 = economy 0 destroying buildings
0 = economy 1 stealing credits
0 = economy 2 food poisoning, pop died
1 = Science 0 destroying buildings
1 = Science 1 getting research points
1 = Science 2 enemies research points destroyed
2 = military 0 destroying buildings
2 = military 1 killing troops
2 = military 2 destroying ship
2 = military 3 stealing a ship
2 = military 4th damaging a ship
3 = diplomacy 0 improving relation
3 = diplomacy 1 decreasing enemies relation
3 = diplomacy 2 improving relation to minor
3 = diplomacy 3 decreasing enemies relation to minor
So getting a ship stolen is shockingly embarrassing as the Star Trek episode where a Romulan cloaking device is stolen.

This happened to a Khaoran cruiser. I would be mortified. It would be funnier if it was a defection. Earlier it was colony ships.

It is constantly destroying troops, sabotaging space docks, damaging outposts, and once 13 level 1 security buildings were destroyed in a single turn.

I was excited as I was hoping that I could reverse engineer the tech (like the USA has done with MiG pilots who defected. Nope. You can steal research points. I guess if the Khaoran surrenderedand became a "vassal" that would be better for the Omega. If it's like the minor alien races who enter membership, you then can create new ships with modified weaponry and armor. The ship design has "manueverability".

Ideally when I mod this, I would create ships from scratch.

Imagine the total humilation of the Khaoran vessels under Rotharian command.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

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I haven't seen a single comment like, "Gee the sabotage is what I really enjoy about BotE". Rather the exact opposite as some don't want to play BotE because of sabotage.

I think the solution is it happens way later in the game when you can ill afford to spend workers' time to do nefarious intelligence activities like poisoning troops and citizens. A giant amount has been spent that could have been troops and ships to wage conventional war.

Consider the economic costs: the troops and ships have upkeep vs the cost of maintaining intelligence networks and constantly generating intelligence points. To me, the espionage to get maps updating is useful, but the sabotage missions do get a one point bonus for little risk, but it's a hollow victory.

It's ugly but the Omega get a systemwide morale bonus for every successful sabotage event. It's one point which is the same as winning a battle. Essentially it's spindoctoring through propagandists posing as journalists so the citizens know empire-wide. In reality, that would expose the intel network.

The entire point of this current test was to devise a strategy to avoid getting sabotaged, not actually sabotaging anyone. It is amusing that you can blame the sabotage on other major races though.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

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To witness how egregious intelligence can be regarding sabotage, see this link.
viewtopic.php?f=107&t=7712&start=30

The worst I have ever seen happened by me playing as the Omega on an automatic operative attack on the Khaoran system named Tania. 24 separate level 2 security buildings were destroyed in a single mission, and multiple missions took place that turn as my strength is 240% against the military.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

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Intelligence sabotage missions apparently become "automatic" at 200% and as the points rise, it seems like for every 10%, then a mission can happen, either espionage or sabotage.

Thus at turn #400 at 240% against the military, there are 4 missions per turn at least for the human player. I've seen worse against the human player as I had as many as 10 possibly by a single empire, and multiple empires were jumping on the bandwagon. It was like when an American footbball linebacker sacks the quarterback, and there is a "pile on" and suddenly the entire team on the field jumps on the poor buried quarterback. It's unsportsmanlike.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: The dreaded intelligence and counterintelligence service

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin »

If I was foolish and cruel, I would spend more than 33% and not keep so many intel points as a "reserve". There is no telling how high the military percentage would be. 300%+

It felt abusive with 10 intel agencies at level 1. I've done upgrades to level 3. But the hapless and hopeless Khaoran had 24 level 2 security buildings on Tania. If I did that across the Omega empire, I probably could wipe out the Khaoran just by asymmetric warfare and then just invade. Or I could do the same simultaneously against the Terrans and the Heyoun.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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