Birth of the Empires

Pawleus hat geschrieben:There are bugs with displaying morale production, I think.

1. Negative morale production is not displayed in conquered systems (although it seems to be applied from turn to turn - I am not certain of that)
2. Positive morale production from morale adding troops is not displayed and what's even worse it looks like being subtracted not added from turn to turn (at least sometimes; I noticed this subtraction reliably with HFA that should supposedly add 3 morale to production - as long as I had 2 HFA in my Heyoun native colony morale was being lowered from turn to turn in it even though morale in my other colonies, conquered included, was rising).

It should be displayed but you can send a save for me to test.
As for troops, under 100 the effect is positive above 100 it's negative. Also morale effects from troops aren't shown in the production menu because it's not an effect "produced". In most cases i think it's best to keep the troops in ships. Now we have a troop overview so it's easy to keep track of them.

Darkness hat geschrieben:1. Keine Ahnung warum aber heute ist das hüpfen nicht da. ._.

Kann es sein das du Zoomen aufgschlossen hast und deswegen "hüpft" es? Also war der Schloßsymbol grün?

Pawleus hat geschrieben:There are bugs with displaying morale production, I think.
1. Negative morale production is not displayed in conquered systems (although it seems to be applied from turn to turn - I am not certain of that)

I don't notice anything strange on my side so please send a save and tell me what to look at. It's easier that way.

blotunga hat geschrieben:

Darkness hat geschrieben:1. Keine Ahnung warum aber heute ist das hüpfen nicht da. ._.

Kann es sein das du Zoomen aufgschlossen hast und deswegen "hüpft" es? Also war der Schloßsymbol grün?

Nein. Hab das mal ausprobiert und auch wenn es einen ähnlichen Effekt beim Mausklick verursacht ist dieser um ein vielfaches schwächer und kaum wahrnehmbar. Zudem passiert bei Systemwechsel durch Pfeiltasten überhaupt nichts und da ist mir die Bewegung des Textes überhaupt erst aufgefallen.

Mach dir keinen Kopf. Solange ich das nicht wieder habe bringt es nichts da zu rätseln. ^^

Pawleus hat geschrieben:There are bugs with displaying morale production, I think.
1. Negative morale production is not displayed in conquered systems (although it seems to be applied from turn to turn - I am not certain of that)

Thats not a bug. There is a local moral penalty of -1 in every world you have conquered (for ever). It was never been displayed, same like the moral boost or penalty of troops.
I'm not sure why it isn't diplayed but I think for troops its because of the irregular effect (+ moral under 100 - moral over 100).

blotunga hat geschrieben:I don't notice anything strange on my side so please send a save and tell me what to look at. It's easier that way.

You should look at the rectangle in the right corner of the build or production screen - there is shown the morale production for a system. At least in 0.6.80, I've noticed playing Heyoun and Khaoron that in the conquered systems the same value of morale production is shown as in my own colonies (having the same morale buildings built) and it shouldn't be the case (it should be 1 less).

I will check my saves from 0.6.80 later today and I will choose one if you still need them. Do you want it attached to my post?

Darkness hat geschrieben:Thats not a bug. There is a local moral penalty of -1 in every world you have conquered (for ever). It was never been displayed, same like the moral boost or penalty of troops.
I'm not sure why it isn't diplayed but I think for troops its because of the irregular effect (+ moral under 100 - moral over 100).

Don't you see how wrong it is? Without having the proper value displayed (and both metioned should influence it, even if there is irregularity) it defeats the purpose of displaying it! Actually, there should even be a tooltip showing all elements that influence it at the moment. A player shouldn't be forced to peruse wiki and guess whether or not it's implemented at all.

The morale boost from events isn't the morale production by a system so it's correct that it isn't influencing the value.

Darkness hat geschrieben:There is a local moral penalty of -1 in every world you have conquered (for ever).

That should be -0.5, on average. A moral penalty of -1 with a chance of 50%.

Pawleus hat geschrieben:Don't you see how wrong it is? Without having the proper value displayed (and both metioned should influence it, even if there is irregularity) it defeats the purpose of displaying it! Actually, there should even be a tooltip showing all elements that influence it at the moment. A player shouldn't be forced to peruse wiki and guess whether or not it's implemented at all.

The morale boost from events isn't the morale production by a system so it's correct that it isn't influencing the value.

Not really no. xD

But I play this games for years and learned this effects after I conquered my first world and using my first troop with moral effect, so I'm not the right one to ask if its needed to display. ^^

Btw, there is another moralchanging effect that you only can see after you start the next turn.
Its a malus for having more than 100 moral that will slowly reduce your value back to 100. How much moral loss per round you get depends on how much moral over 100 you have.

Anonymissimus hat geschrieben:That should be -0.5, on average. A moral penalty of -1 with a chance of 50%.

You mean it should be changed to this or it is actually like you described it?

Darkness hat geschrieben:Not really no. xD

But I play this games for years and learned this effects after I conquered my first world and using my first troop with moral effect, so I'm not the right one to ask if its needed to display. ^^

Sorry, but for me it doesn't work this way and no matter how I'm used to a bad design it's still bad - I just work around it. If something defeats the purpose of a good design (and I would say it's good because the information about the morale production by a system is needed) then it's a bug.

Darkness hat geschrieben:Btw, there is another moralchanging effect that you only can see after you start the next turn.
Its a malus for having more than 100 moral that will slowly reduce your value back to 100. How much moral loss per round you get depends on how much moral over 100 you have.

Yes, I know about it - I've read the information on Wiki but this effect is not produced by a system and it's just a part of the morale mechanic. This is exactly why a player needs correct values of the morale production by a system. Knowing the correct value he is able to predict more reliably whether or not he will be able to maintain the current level of morale in a system and thus whether or not he has to take actions eg. as to ensure that what is expected to be built will be built in the next turn.

BTW, as some morale levels are displayed in different colour it could be nice if the colour of the morale production value corresponds to it in this way that it's in the same colour as the level of morale it can maintain without influences from events.

Anonymissimus hat geschrieben:That should be -0.5, on average. A moral penalty of -1 with a chance of 50%.

It should still be displayed, at least in a tooltip.

Pawleus hat geschrieben:

What I can propose, is to put in parenthesis next to the morale value the expected morale change. Something in the lines of: 190(-3)

I think I've found a bug that creates money out of nothing. I am not sure what triggers it (building a starbase, perhaps?) but I have a save showing my cash increasing over 15000 credits from turn to turn even though the game states the change is only 1751 and the latter value seems to be correct (those 15000 credits were not supported by my actions and I didn't receive any gifts). Press "End Turn" and see for yourself, please

Edit:

blotunga hat geschrieben: What I can propose, is to put in parenthesis next to the morale value the expected morale change. Something in the lines of: 190(-3)

That would be nice, especially for inexperienced players, but if displaying the morale production is supposed to be helpful it should show a correct expected value, as well (preferably, with tooltips that show to curious players what those values are consisted of - as to show them what they could change to change the outcome).

Pawleus hat geschrieben:I think I've found a bug that creates money out of nothing. I am not sure what triggers it (building a starbase, perhaps?) but I have a save showing my cash increasing over 15000 credits from turn to turn even though the game states the change is only 1751 and the latter value seems to be correct (those 15000 credits were not supported by my actions and I didn't receive any gifts). Press "End Turn" and see for yourself, please

Edit:

blotunga hat geschrieben: What I can propose, is to put in parenthesis next to the morale value the expected morale change. Something in the lines of: 190(-3)

That would be nice, especially for inexperienced players, but if displaying the morale production is supposed to be helpful it should show a correct expected value, as well (preferably, with tooltips that show to curious players what those values are consisted of - as to show them what they could change to change the outcome).

1. I'm not sure if it's a bug or not. The outpost is scrapped so you receive money for it and a starbase is created instead. The scrapping of the outpost gives you the money.
2. The morale production is only the effect of the morale producing buildings in that system and the few buildings that give morale empire-wide. The rest are morale effects. So not a production... I'm still undecided how to handle this.

blotunga hat geschrieben: 1. I'm not sure if it's a bug or not. The outpost is scrapped so you receive money for it and a starbase is created instead. The scrapping of the outpost gives you the money.

My issues with it:
- 15000 credits for scraping an outpost is really a lot of money and it could easily be exploitative.
- even if we consider it as a feature there is still a bug because the Change is displaying only 1751!

blotunga hat geschrieben: 2. The morale production is only the effect of the morale producing buildings in that system and the few buildings that give morale empire-wide. The rest are morale effects. So not a production... I'm still undecided how to handle this.

I think that if the morale production is supposed to be helpful for inexperienced players (experience ones can easily count what the value is from their memory unless their memory is bad and they fail to use an external one ) then it should show the sum of all expected morale producing effects in the current system (buildings, troops and temporal local resistance) - you have no indication that the system was conquered (nor what are the effects of it and we had to guess) on the build and production screens and there is no indication that there are morale changing troops (and in what way they are changing it) so it's not a playerfriendly design.

Pawleus hat geschrieben:

blotunga hat geschrieben: 1. I'm not sure if it's a bug or not. The outpost is scrapped so you receive money for it and a starbase is created instead. The scrapping of the outpost gives you the money.

My issues with it:
- 15000 credits for scraping an outpost is really a lot of money and it could easily be exploitative.
- even if we consider it as a feature there is still a bug because the Change is displaying only 1751!

blotunga hat geschrieben: 2. The morale production is only the effect of the morale producing buildings in that system and the few buildings that give morale empire-wide. The rest are morale effects. So not a production... I'm still undecided how to handle this.

I think that if the morale production is supposed to be helpful for inexperienced players (experience ones can easily count what the value is from their memory unless their memory is bad and they fail to use an external one ) then it should show the sum of all expected morale producing effects in the current system (buildings, troops and temporal local resistance) - you have no indication that the system was conquered (nor what are the effects of it and we had to guess) on the build and production screens and there is no indication that there are morale changing troops (and in what way they are changing it) so it's not a playerfriendly design.

1. Yes, it's a bit much, but it's as this since ages so I have no idea if I should touch it or not. And 15000 is very lucky, it's a random between the 25% - 75% of the outpost's value, so probably 15000 is near the upper limit. Though it can be more... The change never shows exceptional income (scrapping, gifts etc).
2. Well, we have to find a middle ground here . I will think about it a bit more. Still the production value probably should stay as it is. However as I said, I'm open to put into a paranthesis the expected moralechange of the system in the next round (except empire-wide effects of course, like war etc).

blotunga hat geschrieben: The change never shows exceptional income (scrapping, gifts etc).

It's the same as with the morale production - shouldn't it show them as well? Otherwise, what would be the purpose of it? The real change is over 15000 and the Change shows only 1751 - doesn't it bother you? I guarantee you that I won't be the only one that will file a bug report about it so even for this only reason (to save your time by not reading some worthless bug reports) it could be worth correcting it.

Pawleus hat geschrieben:

blotunga hat geschrieben: The change never shows exceptional income (scrapping, gifts etc).

It's the same as with the morale production - shouldn't it show them as well? Otherwise, what would be the purpose of it? The real change is over 15000 and the Change shows only 1751 - doesn't it bother you? I guarantee you that I won't be the only one that will file a bug report about it so even for this only reason (to save your time by not reading some worthless bug reports) it could be worth correcting it.

I haven't noticed before, but you're probably right, it probably should be corrected.